Conversations over email with a Consciousness thinker and writer

February 19, 2021

Subject: Hello

I made a friend request in your Facebook account. Are you able to accept me as I came across your extensive research on Consciousness that I'm very interested in? You are 92 and I'm 62 so I believe I can learn more from you. I have been writing my journals for self-reflection for the past over 40 years and you can click this link to know what I've shared in a number of websites I named to cover the theme of my writings.

Warm regards and look forward to connect with you.

Sun Fu
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


Feb 23, 2021

 Dear Sun Fu, 

Thanks for your interesting email. I must confess that I hardly check my Facebook as I receive seldomly interesting mail. The anomaly is that whereas I have 350.000 subscribers on YouTube on my own website Man and the Unknown I receive hardly ever responses to my ideas exposed there. 

But at my age one is not tempted to write long intellectual discussions. As one grows older one tries to discover fundamentals in existence. We are all part of a process that stretches beyond our universe. Like the cel in our bodies we may be part of a gigantic being or composite. It all boils down to the question: how is it possible that  out of a natural state of nothingness an existence has come into being? Is there also a state of negative existence that compensates it so that the final result is nil? 1+-1= 0 ? 

Coming down to earth I see our material plane being the outer shell of inner layers of the spiritual and divine. 

Coming down to man. I see him/her as the product of evolution. By ‘coïncidence’ (better nourishment etc) our brain has swollen to such an extent that at birth  a baby can hardly pass the uterus of a women. And this apeman is now proliferating the earth. We hardly realise that we are still 75% chimpanzee and that the homo sapiens in us is still in an emerging state. 

Life is being given purpose by the dramatisation faculty of Nature. Impressions that reach us (and all living beings)  through the senses are being given purpose in order that we may interact. How this faculty plays also tricks with us is seen in dreams. Illusion has us in its grip. When we go beyond this inborn dramatisation we enter the deeper planes of existence. 

All the best and my apologies for being carried away by that damn mind!


My website 'Man and the Unknown'


Feb 20, 2021 

Dear Michael, 

Looks like due to the time difference, we will have a comfortable gap of time to respond to each other and share our thoughts. If you have read some of my writings or sharing of my mind in my journals housed in different websites. I would appreciate some feedback from you.

By chance or fate, I have this opportunity to interact with you. In my research, I discovered that 'interaction' is that essential force that creates who we are and the universe as well according to science. A lot seems to be derived mathematically to determine probabilities that are embedded in matrices according to the latest science of quantum physics.

I'm glad I could keep up with the important advancement in our scientific knowledge available to enable me to use at least the internet and computer technology which enabled me to carry on the journey of life-long learning. I am definitely impressed of your achievement at your age who chose to unravel the mystery of Consciousness which is the common denominator of our interest.

We may have differences in understanding or beliefs due to the fact that your home is in the West and mine has been in the East. You have obviously travelled widely and I had that opportunity too ( writing my journals, I'm able to link them to an index system to any topic as I guessed I've fined tuned my brain to share more without typing more!

On my side, I have been exploring your webpage that has many links where you've been more organized to share your knowledge in a western way. For me I'm more like a story- teller, sharing my feelings and experiences, with links to more information or facts so that I do not cloud my unlimited space online.

I suggest if you have the time and interest, you can scan over my journals as I've been scanning yours. This way, we could benefit in our interaction to answer questions that we may have as a follow-up to gain more enlightenment perhaps?

I already have some questions but prefer that you could start off yours first. I am quite a flexible person or open to alternatives. Look forward to your feedback.

Thank you so much for responding to me here or whichever way that suits you best! 

Sun Fu

Same link to my websites shared above earlier.


Feb 20, 2021 

Dear Sun Fu, 

Thank you for your answer. I glanced over your extensive travelogue history and see that you have seen much of the earth and its people – a real cosmopolitan. The last time I visited Singapore was in 1961 and the Far East 1991. In this centry I took various cruises to the North: Greenland and Iceland. By the way, I love Scandinavian thrillers! 

I have so much to pay attention to that for the time being I shall not be able to go through  your articles and philosophy. My brains have shrunk! I’m more in for Javanese meditation like in Subud (also a tiny group in Singapore) and try to open myself to higher spheres that exist beyond the intellect. 

All the best 



Feb 21, 2021 

Hi Michael, 

Don't worry about not being able to read all my websites that contain my journals of stories of my life or ramblings of my thoughts for my personal self reflection. I wanted to connect to you not to download you with my thoughts but more to learn of yours.

First, I was very impressed that someone from the other corner of the world focused to unravel the mystery of Consciousness with such detailedness supported by an amazing number of precious videos of an era that I grew up in. Another thing is that you're a Dutchman and in the year 1976 in the month of December, I was in Holland as part of my 1st trip to venture to the Western world of Europe where starting from London, I bought the Eurail pass that allowed me to travel by rail in 21 days to cover as many countries I could. 

I managed about 11 countries and it was an eye opener for me who was in Holland on New Year's eve in 1976 in Amsterdam. I realized then that Holland seemed to be a different country from England or the British who ruled Malaysia once in the sense that prostitution was legal and drugs were being pedaled in the streets openly sourced from Thailand that went through Malaysia as well. Before the British rule, the Dutch were prevalent primarily in the important port of Malacca. 

Now as I've become older, I became somewhat a historian due to my interest in recording history first of my own life then to my ancestors to find that they were active in Indonesia, coming from mainland China of course. My great-grandfather on my father's side first arrived in Jakarta in the early 19th century to work for a cousin of my great-grandfather living there. He later moved to Medan in Sumatra and became a very successful businessman there. From my research in family history that brought me to Medan, I soon found myself tracing my ancestors or family history all the way to China. (
Family and ancestral roots are important for us as Chinese. We tend to be conservatives, family orientated and religious. I understand the trend in the West is quite different. Did you ever marry, have a family or have any religious practice? I like to know more about your Consciousness in this aspect of your life and that in your country or the western world.

Thank you.

Sun Fu 


Feb 22, 2021 

Hi Sun Fu. 

Interesting your background details. I do not think that we could have met in Amsterdam in 1976. At that time I spent winter with my mother in Alicante, Spain. In fact I did spend for 25 years winters in Spain with my mother or a friend. I had an apartment there at the sea shore.The main reason being that the climate was sub-tropical – we fled Holland’s cold winters.  I frequented often a sort of esoteric Spanish group there. All was hush hush under the Franco regime when such gatherings were forbidden.. 

Of course I have seen most of Western Europe, but mostly by car. 

As my grandfather was minister in Surabaya end of 19th century and his sons were also staying in Indonesia I’m saturated with stories about life there. I’m also reading a lot of its past history. Chinese played an important part in its development. I helped introducing the Indonesian practice of the Subud latihan in the West in the fifties. One of the latest books I bought is on the phenomenon of stone ‘rains’ in Indonesia. There are a number of accounts of suddenly stones coming down indoors in houses from two meters’ height. Also Theosophy had its biggest lodge in Indonesia, with Chinese. Indonesian (president Sukarno) and Dutch members. I was myself a onetime member until 1958. 

No, I never married, being gay. The advantage of that was that I could spend more time on my interests. 

I see that You climbed the Tai Mo Shan in Hong Kong. I did so too in 1950 and have a clip of it on YouTube. 

Best regards 



Feb 25, 2021 

Dear Michael, 

Thanks for responding well to my questions and sharing some further information about your past in terms of your family life as well as your spiritual or religious life. As you have focused on unraveling Human Consciousness as I have. I guess I wanted to analyze the differences of opinions or understanding we may have and perhaps try to understand the perspective you have that is different from mine. 

After visiting Holland as I had expressed, I knew the country stood out more than any other country I had visited in its freedom of expression in areas generally treated as taboo like sex and drugs. I never went back to Europe again other than visiting London and Hannover Fair in Germany on business trips. More time was spent in the USA, over 25 trips, and when you said you are gay, I'm aware US have changed their laws to recognize same sex marriages whether gay or lesbian. In this aspect, the western world may seem more open to supporting it with law but in the East, it seems the culture or tradition is such that they are more conservative and reluctant. 

The question I have, having informed me you are gay, is do they recognize gay marriages in Holland and not just recognize it but treat it as normal as any other marriage? In the US the vote in the courts to accept was just marginal 6 to 5 so some are still against but in the eyes of the law and many do accept same sex marriage in the US but not in Malaysia. Do all openly accept same sex marriages in Holland today?

On the religion side, Christians in the west seem to not fully endorse same sex marriges and so I'm wondering is that why you also seem to have stopped believing in religion? For me when I went to Australia to study in 1977-79 I joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to return home to Malaysia and married a Singaporean wife who had joined when she was a young teenager to raise 6 children with me where all became of the same faith. She passed away of cancer in 2012. I see that our Church is in Holland as per Wiki as it is an established international church today - ( 

Sex, religion and politics have been controversial topics of our world and I like to know your deeper or personal view on them. I am truly an open minded person so whatever your beliefs and opinions are fine with me. I just like your personal views or opinions, being one who has travelled the world, studied deeply on many subjects, being involved in some religions to inform me of your conscious thoughts.

Thank you in advance,

Sun Fu


Feb 26, 2021 

Dear Sun Fu, 

Thanks for your interesting reply. 

As to gay marriages. First of all I would not consider such a bonding relationship. The hallmark of friendship is granting each other freedom. I had a relationship with a Dutch friend twenty five years until he died in 2006. After that I enjoy being entirely free.  The first gay marriage in the world was transacted in Holland. It is considered here an offense to speak out against it. Every year there was a gay parade along the Amsterdam canals attended by hundreds of thousands of people. Although Christianity has considered it sort of a sin, it is surprising that both Jesus and Paul remained single which was not customary in their days. Every male person should be married, mostly with a partner selected by the family, Marrying out of love was not favored. 

What I have against religion is that it is so cerebral human. I hope that I do not offend your belief in summing up my objects. First of all religions  are in my view  blasphemous in maintaining that their holy books are the word of a supposed godly figure. In Genesis God is just a heavenly figure who strolls along in a Garden of Eden and meets Adam and Eve. That odd God is easily inflammable, even damns mankind for innocent Eve eating an apple. That God, as invented by Jewish priests gets in later years so upset with mankind, except Noah, that he causes it to drown in a worldwide flood. He eats pancakes with Abraham, obliges him to kill his son and finally goes so far as to have his son Jesus killed! No wonder that archeological research has proven that the Bible is just a tale made up by priests to rule over the common believers as there is no find to substantiate what is written. It is all invented.

Religions always wrestle with facts as:  Why – if God is almighty – does he not create a heaven for mankind? Or is God actually the Satan as some Gnostic Christian sectarian believed? Is mankind suffering because Eve ate from that apple? It is all so childish and incomprehensible that people believe religious folklore/tales that do not have any foundation. 

Mind you, I believe in the spiritual and the divine. Even believe in my own way that I have experienced the Divine for brief moments. But it is no figure, or even being. I got a feeling of majesty, support, love, without judgement. I believe that we should open ourselves to this experience and that man is on the threshold of developing more and more the truly human aspects in him/herself becoming angels. 

At any rate I have given a summary of my objections here: 

My apologies once more if I have offended your belief 


Feb 26, 2021 

My dear brother Rogge! 

I respond to you quickly to know that my Consciousness today is such that I can't be offended by anyone easily especially if it is about religion. Thank you again for sharing such straightforward and sincere answers or commentaries as that is optimal for me to learn from you, of your life as well as Holland that I just passed by in the winter of 1976 to know it was a most unusual country but never had the chance to return!

I just want you to know or be aware of my mind or consciousness that first I was a man who "Thinketh" to become educated as for Chinese in Malaysia and maybe China later, getting Western education was much desired. For us in Malaysia, of course England was the one who did a good job to leave behind an education system in our country. Unfortunately it declined when the Muslim majority ruled the government of independent Malaysia to be in charge of the education system. I was the last batch to have my entire education in school in the English language where I just had to make sure I pass the one subject of Bahasa Malaysia or Malay language in order to be able to advance to the next grade of education.

I guess that one short trip to Europe was made due to my desire to "Seeketh" what the rest of the world was like in Britain and the countries in the continent. I had already qualified to enter a university in Australia that provided free tertiary education for me so in a country that is "Downunder", I knew for the next 3 years I would not have the money or time to visit Europe so I squeezed in the trip in the winter of '76! Australia was a great orientation for me to enjoy the great outdoors of mountains, deserts and the ocean. As Australia is not too far from Malaysia, I could make re-visits there and share this journal of mine that covers a little about my travel to Europe and shares perhaps more about my adventurous life that really started from "down-under" (

I will read the link you have shared with me and don't worry, I'm a different Asian or Chinese that has a mind that no one can really offend! I think the main reason could be I've explored the mind or consciousness in my own way through journaling for over 40 years and still continuing to do so. Being younger, I had the benefit of not just traveling but could have an early advantage of using the latest technology to connect with others which you are doing pretty well at your age that has impressed me and caught my attention to seek to interact with you. Interaction has become a keyword for me to explain Consciousness in my own way. You can read about this in this journal of mine that shares more. It also contains all the websites I've used to contain my journals of over 40 years since I started in 1979 but you don't have to click them to read. Just the page that shares my discovery of the importance of interaction in my life will do. ( 

Please continue to share anything you like with me or even ask questions of anything you've read from my journal links as I'm humbled by your experience, knowledge and willingness to respond to my questions that help me understand your consciousness better. You're truly an amazing man and I'm blessed to have this opportunity to interact with you to learn so much more!


Sun Fu

Mar 3, 2021 

Dear Sun Fu, 

Yes, I started out in Theosophy. But I’m a very critical person and start speculating if no other evidence is available. My view of life should confirm to the things I can observe, or proven by archeology, anthropology, or science in general. Also on my own spiritual experiences and practice of the Indonesian Subud meditation. That has made me rebellious even in spiritual organizations. 

I agree that the Christian faith is superior to that of the Islam. To follow Jesus who sacrificed his life for the good of mankind is a magnificent symbol/archetype. But it is unlikely that he ever lived as described in the New Testament or the Book of Mormon. 

It all comes down how you behave towards others of whatever faith. For faith is a thing of the mind and the mind is stirred by animal instincts which we have inherited from our forefathers:  the chimpanzee, or bonono. By a quirk of nature we have become what we are and most of our characteristics we ‘owe’ to primates. Which also accounts that so far in history we have not stopped quarreling and fighting each other, hardly ever living in peace. 

In my opinion we are still for the most part animal, the true human being has still to be awoken. We are on the Way.  I have experienced higher intimations of the divine for a moment. But the God I experienced is not kind of a tyrant, but something majestic, loving - only instilling trust without judgment. Unfortunately we are not able to tune in to It, although we have the capacity to do so, but in our stage of evolution it is still rudimentary. 

I have had several times Mormons at my door, coming often from the USA  on a sort of evangelical tour.  But they underestimate the Dutch. Their preaching is quite primitive. So far they have 9300 members here and a temple in Zoetermeer. 

Best wishes 


Mar 14, 2021

Dear Brother Rogie,

 I am used to addressing my brothers at Church so hope you don't mind

Hope this email finds you healthy and well. I was busy with the Chinese New Year celebration last month and some catching up to do after that but I took time to read your volume of writings. I managed to take some time to include my 1976 European adventure in my journal that I can share with you here.  (

My journals or writings you may have noticed are more introspections of my life over time. Yours have a lot of science related or factual knowledge content in your writings. When did you start writing them online and were they on paper before? I know your films were converted to YouTube online and are valuable content of life in the past just like modern movies! I noticed you were updating them as recent as Jan 2021. I know you had informed me that your mind can't take in too much information today but how did you do all that with so much data to transfer online? Did you have any help and you do type very clearly in your emails too today. 

So as usual I have questions always, like what is the secret of your youthfulness as well as having the mental ability to handle computer or internet technology today or even going back 20 years ago in your seventies? Are you able to do it because handling photographic or video equipment is technical too in that it trains the mind too? 

For me I studied computer science as a major in my business school years when I started my university in Australia in 1977. I was also a pioneer to go into the computer business in the early 80s doing PC sales and later software sales. I know that the algorithm of computer science was useful to me in maximizing the performance of my brain! haha I was never really smart or intelligent in my youth and just had to work hard like most Chinese do I guess in school or at work. Learning information technology was a big bonus for me today but I'm only 62 so wonder how you do it! 

I've noticed in your writings you yearn for spirituality but do not have faith in a God or Creator of our world or universe am I right? I think this is a trend for Westerners after the enlightenment years when many new discoveries came from science rather than revelations from on high. After over 400 years through the enlightenment era through the industrial revolution that started in the West, fewer westerners believed in God today while in the East, somehow belief in Godhood or Spiritual power is still prevalent. 

In my research of Consciousness, I came across Alan Watts from Britain who shared this, about the difference between belief and faith. "Belief is more closed as the believer is open to the truth only if it fits in with his preconceived ideas and wishes. Faith on the other hand is an unreserved opening of the mind to truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions, it is a plunge to the unknown. Belief clings but faith lets go. In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not based on self-deception." 

Well, I look forward to hear your responses as always and there is no need to hurry okay? I look forward to learning the secret of your amazing abilities though. 

Warm regards always, 

Sun Fu

Mar 14, 2021

Dear ‘brother’ Sun Fu, 

Well, in the Subud movement, which I’m a member of, we call each other also ‘brother’. What is in a name? My original family name is IJsbrand, which exists as far back as the fifteenth century. But in Far Eastern countries changing one’s name seems to be common when a new phase in life begins. 

Well, as far as my philosophy is concerned,  I like to issue from fundamentals. I do not think that our monkey mind can grasp the complexities of our existence. In fact reality starts where the illusion of the mind stops. It is recognized in science  that the subconscious conjures to us an illusory world on the basis of what impressions we receive through our senses. Which means that all talk about religion and all revelations are mindwork. A proof of that is what we experience in our dreams. They are made up by our subsconscious mind from existing previous impressions and experiences. All that is written in holy books is produced by our monkey  monky mind and is based on previous impressions. After all we share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees, or bonobos. The real human mind is in a state of awakening. 

The deep reality starts where the mind stops dramatising sensory impressions. In deep reality there are no figures, images, reasonings. Nothing. 

There cannot be a God or Creator, because who or which created that God? The natural state is nothingness, but the miracle is that there is a reality which we experience. So where did that reality come from without being created. That’s the eternal riddle which our mind cannot solve. 

I do believe, however,  that we are part of a gigantic process that stretches even beyond our universe. In that process are different qualities, one of which is the material which we see around us. But there are deeper layers beyond our sensory perceptions which we term spiritual or divine. Their qualities are so exalted and fine that we cannot normally tune into them. But there are sporadic exceptions. 

That is what I have come to believe after some 75 years of pondering. I started out with writing about my youthful believes in a schoolmagazine. About karma and reincarnation and the law of cycles. All from a Theosophic point of view which I abandoned later. I wrote a book (in Dutch) 45 yearas ago, in translation ‘Death no end’. Also published a book ‘Reflections on Subud’ in 1961. 

I started out on computers in 1986, when there was no internet. I joined that in 1996 and YouTube in 2006. I’m not very versant and quick with it as youngsters can. My mind is too slow now. 

Yes, I have read Alan Watts books and others of course. Did for a while Tai Chi in the seventies. 

Best. My apologies for failing to explain my view of life 


Apr 4, 2021

Hi Brother Rogge,

Just want you to know I have not forgotten you even though it's been some time since I emailed you. I was busy with a number of things, first being the Chinese New Year celebrated for 15 days counting the Eve where I was active in self organizing activities in my home, then my office located downtown where I have a community project going with more information at

I also wanted to take time to go through your very large database of information you have built over the years. Your website is very interesting to me especially with the wide spread information on religions, supernatural phenomena and a host of subjects clearly listed on this page : (

The weekend is Easter and we have live telecasts from our Church Headquarters in Salt Lake City from this site (  From your communication to me and what I've read from your website, I can see that you are well aware of many cultures and religions. My writings are more like my personal journals that help me have an introspection of my Consciousness. Living in Asia, we are active in Family life, Working/Learning and Spirituality/Worship as you are well aware. I've written over 40 years of journals and decided this year to put them all under a new umbrella name:

If you have time and are interested, you can check it out and give me some feedback if you have any. Do your writings help you to have introspection of your life to find more meaning and purpose? I like your summary and guidance in your latest writings which I believe that are found here that have a different tone: (  I recall you've used the phrase in No. 7 "Chattering Monkey Mind" in previous mails.

Look forward to hearing from you and if possible we could chat online either via FaceBook or the old Skype system at a day and time convenient for you.

Warm regards always,

Sun Fu 

Jun 1, 2021

Hello Sun Fu,

My apologies for not answering before. I’m inundated by requests on so many subjects and my mind and memory are slowing down so that I cannot go into any details. All I have to say is on my pages. Lately I have been occupied by UFOs now that the American government has confirmed their existence. The question is: where are they coming from? Another dimension, an unknown interplanetery civilisation who have mastered time and space, the hereafter, mankind itself in the future so far advanced that they can travel back in time ‘Back to the future’ like?

Without any further clues, it is all guesswork.

Wish you all the best


June 16, 2021

Dear Brother Rogge,

Was great to hear from you. I spent more time reading your updated pages. You're indeed an amazing man!

Don't worry about having to entertain me in email and I do appreciate our correspondence so far. It would be nice if we could have face to face online communication on any medium that you're familiar with as I do that with family and friends spread out around the world today!

Recently I've focused my expressions in my writings on the topic of the "Purpose of Life" and more specifically, "The Power of Purpose." If you have anything to share on this theme, please let me know. I know you're a very experienced and talented man. You've covered so many topics in life that seem to focus more lately on the paranormal aspects of life. I guess I am curious to know, with all your knowledge and experiences, what personally do you think the purpose of human life is on earth, if there is any? I know it's an enigma for many which causes them to seek for different religions etc to reconcile with the unseen and unknown. You've researched so much and now exploring UFOs which is of course another interesting mystical topic to investigate.

I'm interested to know of your thoughts today, as one who has lived such an amazing life with a rich history, what do you think and feel life's purpose is, if there is any. Your writings are all very interesting but I feel it's an important question to answer for the citizens of our troubled world who may have read your writings in detail, as I have.

Warm regards always,

Sun Fu

June 24, 2021


 Glad that you have understanding for my not having time for long answers.

 This perrenial question about the purpose of life may be answered in many ways according to one’s belief. I sometimes compare it with a cell in our bodies. What is its purpose in existance? It seems obviously to function well in my body. I’m its god. I can only find an explanation for the injustice of  inequality we are born with: DNA, parents, coïncidence, country. by figuring that we are part of a n enormous evolutionary process even extending outside our universe.

 Theosophists and in the Indian philosophy karma and reïncarnation are the answers. We are reaping the results of our past lives. But really what has that baby born somewhere in Africa done in its past life to be slaughtered by thugs, or die of a dreadful disease?

These remain riddles which we cannot answer because we miss elementary clues about our existence. Is there a hereafter where everything is put right? There are enough theories, but we do not know for sure. Anyhow I think that our purpose of life is doing our best under the given circumstances. When I had an intimation of the Divine I found it majestic, full of love and a feeling of all is well whatever you do. (I do not think that an evil man would receive such intimation. He is unable to be contacted by the Divine))

 That’s all I can say in a few words



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